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the following question: DBGT: Does Goku die of old age when he turns SSJ4 in the future? got closed for (in my opinion) very wrong reasons. It got closed for being "primarily opinion based". In the comments practically the only reason I got was "GT is not canon", which is obviously a load of bull. An anime is an anime, and within its own canon, it is most definitely canon.

Another comment I got was this:

I think people downvoted your post because you are asking a question which answers can only be based on assumptions. Insist that opinion be backed up with facts and references.

Well, I did. I literally had a header saying "the facts:" with a bullet list underneath it, stating the facts. (now updated to facts and references for clarity)

My question is most definitely based on things that are canon within the show and of which there are many references. My question is entirely based on things that actually happened in the show and there are no assumptions within it. Therefore I would like my question to be reopened. I don't see where the vote was coming from in any way except for bias against GT.

Thank you :)

Edit just to make something clear to whomever agrees with why my question got closed: Does Goku become the dragon itself at the end of Dragon Ball GT? - a question with 5 upvotes even! It's been favourited, and hey, it explains even less than my question does! This question should be closed for being opinion-based!

Why do the Black Star Dragon Balls exist? - hey look, another one! 8 upvotes! Again, a question with way less facts and references than mine, yet this one gets respected.

Why can't Pan go Super Saiyan? - oh look, another one!

How did Goten and Trunks become Super Saiyan so easily? - look, yet another!

Are half-blooded Saiyans stronger than pure-blooded Saiyans? - hey guys, what a surprise, another one!

-- I'll just stop here. Obviously I've made my point by finding all these questions that should have been closed even more than mine, in the recommended/related sidebar as top questions, within 1 minute. Anime.stackexchange is absolutely littered with these types of questions (Because otherwise there would be no need to ask them)

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  • An anime is an anime, and within its own canon, it is most definitely canon. Erm...............circular logic much? Nov 5 '16 at 6:21
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Your question: What happens if this Goku, all grown up (again), turns SSJ4?

The only way to answer this is with an opinion. That's why it was closed. That's what the close reason means. Yes, you posted some facts in your question, but AFAICT, there isn't anything in those facts that support any type of conclusion.

To quote the close reason description: "Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise." (emphasis added)

Sure, you can have one answer that says: "We don't know", but any other answer would be an opinion, unless the people who created the anime post something somewhere we can reference, or a DB GT2 gets created, or maybe it will be something in DB Super, but until that happens, you'll get crap answers, hence the close reason.

Your comment of most questions on anime.se are asked because they were never explained in the anime is based on flawed logic. You're disregarding people who didn't really watch the anime that closely, or lacked the cultural knowledge, or simply did not understand what was going on. Then there are works that are adaptations of some other media, and the adaptations are simply abridged versions of the original media.

There are plenty of reasons why people would ask questions about a work even if it was explained in the anime. By your argument, people should never ask any questions about science or math or history, because its all written in the text books.

The questions you've listed are either outright answerable based on watching/reading dragonball or there is enough context to come to a conclusion, with the exception of one having a highly authoritative answer.

Does Goku become the dragon itself at the end of Dragon Ball GT? -> He did not become a dragon. That's a fact, because if he did become a dragon, there would be something in the anime that shows he's a dragon.

Why do the Black Star Dragon Balls exist? -> The question asks very specific things, and also had misunderstands which were able to be corrected. It is possible to answer the question because we can correct the initial misunderstandings. My memory of GT is a bit fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure it was explained in the anime, too

Why can't Pan go Super Saiyan? -> this is an even better question, since the answer is based off of what the author had said.

Last two questions are related. It has been demonstrated time and again that hybrids are more powerful than pure saiyans. There is a strong indication that genetics play a roll, but its not explained exactly why. This predisposition for strength is reinforced with tools (sensu beans, hyperbolic time chamber) and knowledge, goku already became a super saiyan and its something that can be taught.

As I posted originally, if Toriyama decides to shed light on the issue, sure, by all means reopen it, but as it is, I don't see any reason why there would be any reasonable answer to this question based off of what's been showed on the anime.

And finally, this has nothing to do with anything, and is just my personal opinion, but your comments and the wording you've used come off as pretty hostile. Even if people agree with your logic, people will be less inclined to express agreement based on your tone. As the saying goes: you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and I see a lot of vinegar and very little honey. Since you have a decent amount of rep on SO, I think you're aware that most of the responses you've gotten have been pretty polite.

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  • But you're wrong. Nobody has explained how that works. 9/10 answers on stackexchange are theories. They get asked because they never got explained in the anime. Which is the reason why I have a question in the first place. As I have replied to the comment stating what you now stated in your answer; according to this logic, the anime section of stackexchange would be rendered futile. You demand me to ask a question that has been explained in the show? If it was, then why would I ask it? It would have already been answered!
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 17:28
  • I've posted my response in the body of my answer. However, at this point, I think all I can say is that we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm just a user on the site, so nothing I say reflects the policies of the site itself. A mod will probably decide what to do with the question, I'm just explaining the reasoning as I see it.
    – ton.yeung
    Aug 29 '16 at 19:02
  • I'm sorry for coming over hostile, but I'm getting incredibly tired of this specific situation. It's extremely irritating. You say my question asks for an opinion, while it asks for an explanation in the form of a theory. An opinion would be given in a question like "Who would win a fight, naruto of luffy?" (an example handled by a lot of people) and then people would indeed use their opinions to judge. My question does not allow for opinions. You can't say "Oh, Goku undoes the dragon's wish when he goes SSJ4, but I find that to be stupid so it doesn't happen", because it's fact. That's why.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 20:54
  • Oh, and also, I happen to know about the "did Goku become one with the dragon?" question and you've interpreted it wrong, that's why you state that it's a valid question. It was never insinuated that Goku became a dragon so the anime did not have to show him becoming a dragon. It was insinuated that he became Shenron's guardian. That he became "one with" the dragon. A part of him, as his protector. Not that he became one himself. The top rated answer also doesn't deny or confirm that he became part of the dragon, so it's still up for discussion and the question was never answered.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 20:58
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    "9/10 answers on stackexchange are theories." Can you prove this, or are you just postulating GASP your own opinion? If there are things not explained in the anime or manga, go ask Toriyama-san. Nov 5 '16 at 6:23
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First of all, I agree that there are a few inconsistencies here and there in regards to whether or not an opinion based question. However, I believe your question is still off topic.

The primary reason for being opinion-based is because the answer is based on speculation and is hypothetical. "What if" something happened, can only be answered with guesses - some can be backed up by fact, but ultimately it is something that has not been addressed by the show. More extreme examples are "What if Naruto fought Luffy?" - you could provide information about how much they can both lift, or their skills, but ultimately it is based on the answerer's opinion.

See this "Gorrilla Vs Shark" post for an explanation as to why these posts are discouraged

Let me explain the reason why those other questions you note remain open:

  • Does Goku become the dragon itself at the end of Dragon Ball GT?

    This is looking for clarification on the ending of the show. Answers can be opinions alright, but an equally valid answer is that it is up to interpretation.

  • Why do the Black Star Dragon Balls exist?

    This is asking for the story behind a plot piece. It can be answered definitively, even if the answer is 'it was never revealed in the manga nor anime'.

  • Why can't Pan go Super Saiyan?

    Similarly, this is asking to explain a story element. "It was never revealed why" is valid.

  • How did Goten and Trunks become Super Saiyan so easily?

    More story explanation

  • Are half-blooded Saiyans stronger than pure-blooded Saiyans?

    Again, this can be answered with story citations.

Here are some examples that are more similar to your question:

What if you wrote "eaten by a gigantic sea-snake" in the Death Note?

What if a pokeball was lost and couldn't be opened?

For this, we have had an old meta post: Are question that are slightly hypothetical, but with potentially great answers dissallowed?

And the policy is generally:

if the show has a coherent framework of rules from which we can make deductions. That said, shows like this are few and far between

There are no hard rules in the Dragonball. Akira even forgets some of the rules he put in at the beginning - where did all the tails go!?

So, this is our reasoning behind the community's closure - and I realise it seems inconsistent, but the other option is complete off-topic closure and regardless this question would be off-topic.

Please feel free to ask me any other questions :)

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  • Sure. I have another question for you :) you state my question is more like "What if Naruto fought Luffy?" and the question "Does Goku become the dragon itself at the end of Dragon Ball GT?" is completely different, but you are, to put it plain and simple; wrong. My question is exactly like the one about goku becoming the dragon itself, but with more facts and references from the anime itself. Here, let me rephrase my question for you: "Does Goku die of old age when he turns SSJ4 in the future?" -- there. No more "what if". Now it's exactly like the other question. Find a flaw?
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 20:43
  • I am clearly also asking for clarifaction on the ending of a show. My question is no different from "Does Goku become the dragon itself at the end of Dragon Ball GT?" at all.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 20:50
  • @Babydead I mean it's still a situation that doesn't happen in story right? you just changed the hypothetical scenario into claiming it happens. Something I would consider acceptable would be "What happens to Goku at the end of DBGT?" or "Does Goku ever turn SSJ4 again after DBGT?". I realise this is annoying and seems like trivial semantics, but we have to be consistent or the ambiguity will get worse. Aug 29 '16 at 21:00
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    It does seem like extremely trivial semantics, because although the situation itself never happened, a similar situation happened. (Goku aged as he turned SSJ4 in the first place). And going back to that, I again see absolutely no difference between ANY other question that asks something that didn't happen on the show. anime.stackexchange.com/questions/19497/… - this question wasn't closed. This never happened either.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:04
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    I encouraged the OP to bring this to Meta because I didn't realize we were deciding on a series-by-series basis whether hypothetical questions were opinion-based, which seems bizarre to me. Yes, the rules in the Dragon Ball series are based on the rule of cool and constantly added and forgotten, but Sci-Fi and Fantasy has tons of Harry Potter questions where the answer turned out to be "JK Rowling sucks at math", so I don't know why we can't just let the question stay open and let the answer be "Akira Toriyama sucks at consistency".
    – Torisuda
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:04
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    (Though it wasn't actually him in this case since he didn't write GT.)
    – Torisuda
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:04
  • scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/73476/… -- another great example. This question wasn't closed either. It has exactly the 'semantics' you describe. Although the answer kind of is an answer, it wasn't possible to be an answer until a year later when DBS came out. The question should've been closed according to your logic, but it wasn't.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:12
  • scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/38979/… - and another one. This one is even more like mine. It has way less direct references and facts to back it up, but it's there. Upvotes and all. It's a "what-if" situation answered with logic that actually makes sense. "Because Buu was more powerful than the dragon", which is literally a part of my question, only concerning Goku instead of Buu.
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:18
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    Babydead: Scifi is a separate site in the stack exchange network and is moderated differently. @Torisuda I am going to open a policy discussion post, i encourage you both to share your opinions. I'm just relaying current policy. Aug 29 '16 at 21:19
  • I was actually surprised to discover this policy when you mentioned it; I didn't realize we had an official policy about this, and I definitely will chime in on the discussion post as I really think we should revisit this; even if this specific question is ultimate deemed off-topic, I think that policy is too restrictive.
    – Torisuda
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:28
  • I'm sorry, but, here's another: anime.stackexchange.com/questions/6305/… this would be against your semantics once more, because it was never shown in the anime. It should've been closed then. See? Your semantics don't seem to pan out. -- I quote you: "you just changed the hypothetical scenario into claiming it happens."
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:29
  • @Babydead Toshinou-san is right that we can't expect the moderation and policies to be exactly the same between here and Sci-Fi. I brought it up as an analogous situation where allowing hypothetical questions worked. I understand that you're angry and I'm sorry this didn't work out the way I thought. We'll have to make our case on the other post.
    – Torisuda
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:31
  • btw, I would also love to join that discussion =)
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:31
  • @Babydead please do. Also I will advise against lengthening this thread of comments any further - if you wish to continue the discussion feel free to visit our chatroom chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/6697/maid-cafe- (though I have posted the other post now) Aug 29 '16 at 21:33
  • @Torisuda I know :(.. you're very nice by the way haha. But I'm just looking for logic into what these people are claiming right now, because I see something countering their arguments on nearly every page they go, which is why I'm commenting so many different types of posts. You're quite right about having to make our case on the other post, because these 'semantics' seem to be very opinion- and situation based (ironically enough)
    – NoobishPro
    Aug 29 '16 at 21:33

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